Civil Christian Conversations: The Scholar & The Mystic with Keith Lilley37 min read

Bryan Hyde
Welcome to the Janine Bolon show, where we share tips from around the globe as we guide practical people with their finances using money tips, increase their incomes through side businesses, and maintain their sanity by staying in their creative zone.

Janine Bolon
Hey, welcome to today’s show. I’m your host Janine Bolon. And with me today is quite the treat. I have Keith and you probably have heard him on KHNC, his show Pursuit of God, that you can hear every Saturday at noon, and I’m right 24 hours after him Sundays on noon. So I highly recommend that you give Keith a listen Pursuit of God. He’s a fundamentalist Christian that wanted to see if he could do a little bit of improving when it came to Christian radio based on what he had been hearing, and what he had experienced himself. Thank you so much for joining us today, Keith.

Keith Lilley
Thank you for having me on.

Janine Bolon
Yeah, so you’re one of these guys, that you were listening to a lot of stuff, and you had your own opinions on this stuff. And then you had a desire to see what you could do. So do you mind telling us a little bit about why on earth? Put up your own money, you know, spend all the time that you do every week on a radio show? I mean, what brought you to that? What was the driving force?

Keith Lilley
Well, I think all my life I had listened to, I spent a lot of time in my car driving to and from work and everything and listening to Christian radio, and I was really disappointed with the quality of what was being taught on there. And it’s kind of a reflection about what’s being taught in the Christian churches actually. And when cage and see through the door open for people he phrase that kinda like, Do you have something important that you think our listeners would need to hear kind of thing? And I thought, wow, there’s nothing more important than the gospel of Jesus Christ, you know? So and I had been preaching for a number of years. And so I thought, yeah, why don’t I get on the radio and try it. And at the beginning of my program, part of my motivation, is that, you know, this is, I call this the most important hour of your week, because the things we talked about here are the things from the Word of God that can absolutely change your life, and change your eternal destiny. And so thinking that it’s that important, I thought, you know, this is a good investment of my time and my money.

Janine Bolon
And you do, I like to make sure that people understand, you buy this radio time out of your own pocket, it’s not like you have a huge church that is supporting you, this is a that, you know, just this one guy had this divine tap on the shoulder, if you will to do this. And so, do you self identify as a fundamentalist Christian? How would you prefer to be labeled in this regard?

Keith Lilley
You know, that’s a really good question. You know, technically, you could say I’m fundamental, but I’m also a charismatic to a certain degree, I’m also, um, you know, labels, sometimes I help, sometimes they don’t. Fundamental to me just means back to the basics. You know, when the coach’s team losers, he brings his team out to the field and they say, look, we got to get back to the basics. We got to get back to the fundamentals here. You got to learn how to tackle, you got to learn how to pass and with the gospel, I guess I am trying to do that. And to me, fundamental just means let’s go back to what the Word of God says. And let’s do it. Let’s not just be hearers of the word, but be ye doers also. So I’m trying to focus on exactly what the Word of God says how that applies to our life in everyday living. And just fundamentally, Jesus defined the first 10 commandments, the greatest commandments, love God with your whole heart with your whole mind, everything that you are, and the second commandment, love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Janine Bolon
And to me, that’s a great starting point. Yeah, yeah, that’s a great starting point. And so today, I just wanted to kind of let everybody know we’re bringing back what we hope is civility in conversation. So I first of all, I apologize for interrupting you. But I realized I forgot to say that I got so excited that I had you on the line that I totally forgot to say that today’s conversation is civility and conversation because we are talking about fundamentals of faith. We are talking about Christianity today. But also know that I have traveled around the world and I have been exposed at a very young age to Buddhism, I was exposed to Hinduism, there were voodoo priestesses in my life that I learned from all these religions. And one of the things that really attracted me to Keith was when he started talking about look, these two commandments of love the Lord thy God with all our heart, heart, mind, soul and strength. That’s how I remember it. It depends on what version you’re reading. And then the other one is and love thy neighbor as thyself. And remember, back in the day, when Christ was running around and chatting with people, they were like, who’s my neighbor? Right? They were confused by the fundamentals. So talk to us a little bit about what you wanted to do with your radio show pursuit of God and how you want to just take those fundamentals and share them with your listeners.

Keith Lilley
Um, I got the name of the program from a book written by A.W. Tozer. He was a preacher back in the 40s and 50s, in Chicago. And the things that he says that he saw in the church in his day is, ah, absolutely true in our church today. And he had a lot to say about that. And he really inspired me to, again, get back to the basics, and now I forgot your question.

Janine Bolon
I would just say, when you talk about fundamentals, right, talk about the fundamentals.

Keith Lilley
Right. Okay. One of the things that is happening in our country today is a lot of people are calling themselves Christians, and they’re not Christians. So I wanted to clear that up right away. I call that churchianity. Jesus said, You confess me with your lips, but your hearts are far from me. And so I wanted to address that head on. And a lot of Christians are getting a bad, bad press. And not all of it is undeserved. Most of it is deserved bad press, because they’re hypocrites. And so it makes everybody we’re all thrown under the bus because of these famous people that call themselves Christians out of one side of the mouth, and then out of the other side, they’re living their own life. And so I make very clear, one of the fundamental principles about being a Christian, that Jesus talks about is you must be born again. And you only get born again, by hearing the gospel, which is Jesus Christ came and died for sinners and rose again from the dead. And if you believe that, and you repent, because that’s important also, a lot of Christians think they can come into the kingdom of heaven and not repent. And Jesus said, No, you must repent, believe, and then walk. And so to me, those are the very fundamentals that I try to keep at the forefront. Because when I talk about the Christian life, and the blessings that come from the Christian life, none of that happens unless you’re in the kingdom of God unless you’re born again. So that’s kind of where I’m coming from.

Janine Bolon
When you say repent, I like to really get into definitions. I’m an analytical biochemist by training. And so I like to learn everybody’s definition so that we are saying the same words because as you know, people will twist words around, so for you, what is repentant mean for you in this regard?

Keith Lilley
Great, great question. Absolutely. Repent is this. When we’re born, I believe in the doctrine of original sin. I don’t believe that people are naturally good. I think the Scriptures teach clearly that we have sinned in our lives, and that we are born in rebellion to God. If you take a little tiny child, that child is perfect, and they’re innocent. Are you a parent?

Janine Bolon
Oh, yes, I’ve got four of those little people running around in my world.

Keith Lilley
Well, then I would say, I would ask you then, I don’t think you spent much time teaching those children how to be bad. I think you are like all other parents who try very hard to cause their children to be good little people. And we teach them not to lie, we teach them not to be selfish. And that’s because they get this all by themselves. And so anyway, as a sinner, when we hear that gospel, we’ve been walking away from God, repent means change your mind, and agree with God. And so when you hear the Gospel, it wakes you up, and you begin to understand, you can see God for His Holiness, for his righteousness. And in that reflection, you see how bad you are, and that you are a sinner, and that you have a need of the gospel. And so in order to enter into the kingdom of God, instead of walking away from God, you have to turn, repent means to turn and to agree. And you have to admit that you need to turn. So it’s like, if you’re going to Chicago, and you’re in Denver, and you started going west, and somebody told you, hey, if you’re going to Chicago, you’ve got to go the other direction. And if you just say, yeah, yeah, and you keep going west, you did not repent. But when you say, Oh, I see. Yeah, you’re right. Okay, I’ve got it. And so you agree with your person that’s correcting you, and then you turn your direction. And so now you’re going in the right direction to get to your destination. That’s all repentance is. And a lot of people come into the kingdom of God, they think they’re the king, and they bring in their own sinful lifestyle, and they think they can keep being who they were.

Janine Bolon
And so we’re talking about the fundamentals with Keith today, who happens to also be on KHNC with me, Janine Bolon. And we’re going to come back and talk about the civility in conversation. When you’re talking about spiritual principles with one another. Stay tuned as we talk about Christian mysticism, as well as the fundamentals of Christianity, and hear more from what Keith has to tell us take care.

Janine Bolon
Welcome back, this is Janine Bolon. And with me is Keith, the host of Pursuit of God, which also can be heard here on KHNC, Saturdays at noon. And I just wanted to let you know we are talking about civility in conversation, especially when it comes to Christianity. I happen to be a Christian mystic. And Keith likes to talk about the fundamentals of Christianity in his perspective, we were just listening to what he believes are the fundamentals of Christianity. And I have to say, I totally agree with them the fundamentals which are love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul strength, and then be kind to your neighbor, you know, be good to your neighbor, the golden rule that you hear in many, many different religious faiths. So we were talking about repent and what that definition was for Keith. And from my perspective, I’d like to bring in mysticism and what my definition of mysticism is, there’s a lot of misunderstanding. And so we’re going with definitions to bring about a bit of clarity before we move with the conversation. In my mind, mysticism, especially Christian mysticism, is the ability to gain knowledge that bypasses the intellect, the ability to become unified with your deity, your Creator, and it bypasses the intellect. And this is mysticism, when you experience the Lord your God, however, that form happens to come to you. And so we wanted to talk a little bit more about some of the criticisms that Christian radio has come under. And I would love Keith, for you to share what you know, in regards to this since you decided to with your own money, create a radio show so that you could share your perspective of what you felt was the fundamental message of Christianity.

Keith Lilley
Well, some of the things that happens on so called Christian radio, in my humble opinion, is you get a lot of opinion on there. What I try to do is stay right with the Word of God. In my broadcast, I quote a lot of scriptures and read a lot of scriptures. And I just think that’s preeminent. Our churches, again, are filled with people who think that they are Christians when they are not. And that’s very, very dangerous. Jesus said, not everybody that saith unto me, Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven. And they will tell him, Lord didn’t we do this in your name, didn’t we do that in your name, didn’t we do this, and he’s going to tell them depart from me, I never knew you. Wow, those are questions nobody wants to hear, especially if you’re gonna call yourself a Christian. And so I want to make it very clear what it takes not to hear those words. You know, we, just to be very clear. When I talk with people in public, or in any kind of setting, a lot of when I tell them what the Bible says, according to life, they will say, well, that’s your opinion. And I’m like, we’re really it’s not, I’m telling you, this is what God says. You know, I had a, we had a Bible study over at some friends house and her brother lived with them for a while, and he was an alcoholic, and he would leave and go to the bar when we would come over and have our Bible study. And I kept asking him, Hey, why don’t you just stay in study with us? And one day he had already been drinking, and he was pretty, he was on his way already. And he asked me, he says, Keith, what do you think, am I going to hell? And I says, You know what, Frank, it makes no difference, what I think makes no difference. I go, but I can tell you what God thinks if you’re interested. Yeah, sure. What does God think? And God says right there, drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. So again, until he repents, you know, then he’s not eligible. And so, when you become a Christian, it’s not about you. It’s not about me, it’s all about the Lord. He is our Lord, He is our Savior. And there’s a lot of people out there who think that they can have a relationship on God on their own terms. Where the word of God lays out the terms upon which God allows us to have a relationship with Him. And so I try to stay with that, I try to make clear, this is what God says, this is what God is thinking concerning this. And you and I need to allow God in our life, to get us to that point, because you and I, we cannot clean up our lives. You cannot earn your salvation, you cannot do anything to get into God’s good graces. It’s impossible. The only thing that you and I can do, to have a relationship with God is to accept what Jesus Christ did on the cross for our benefit, as sinners, it says the scripture says the wages of sin is death. And so, if I’m born a sinner, I’m going to die. But Jesus says, if you believe in me, you will have life because I am the resurrection and the life. And he says, I am the way the truth and the life. And so, we have, that’s God’s terms. God has no relationship with anybody outside of his Son, Jesus Christ. What do you think of that?

Janine Bolon
Well, one of the things that I learned and one of the things I’ve experienced, so I am not I will be the first to admit, when it comes to studying the Christian Bible, I have what I would call I’ve only read it through once. And I have studied certain scriptures more than others that resonated with me. And so when it comes to Christ consciousness, so that is what I was after. I wanted to find a way where I wasn’t listening to other people’s opinions. So like you it was, I wasn’t interested in opinion. I was interested in the experience. I wanted the experience like Mary had and the other mystics in the Bible that would actually hear the Word of God, they would actually hear it in their own minds. And so I have to admit that my path was one of I want the experience and I took solace in that knock in the door shall be opened, those who seek shall find, that was my scripture, that was like a mantra to me for years. And because I was raised with the Buddhists, in my early days, one of the things I learned was, I didn’t go after the word of God as well as you have. Mine was I wanted the experience of God, I wanted that resurrection, I wanted that word in my head guiding me, I wanted a two way conversation. That’s what I wanted. And I thought, why do a bunch of ancient guys have that experience? And what do I need to have that myself. And so when I started working, and learning from Hindus, they were like, it’s totally possible, but you have to meditate. And so I meditated for 25 years. And I finally got the experiences that I was after, which was a two way conversation with my Creator. And that, for me, is the difference between mysticism and other forms of religion or spirituality. I don’t want to argue, but I just wanted to say, I was very clear on what I wanted, which was I want to direct communion with my Creator. And the way I did it was through Christ consciousness. So that’s how I would answer your question, your comment.

Keith Lilley
You know, I love that. And we need to have that. Let me just be frank with you. Are you born again?

Janine Bolon
But see, that’s where I don’t have any disagreement with you. I am born again. Because after that experience, I was totally changed. Yeah, so the answer is, according to your definition, I don’t know. But for me, absolutely. A nobody can take that experience from me. Because I know, that I know, that I know what happened.

Keith Lilley
Right. And that’s the key. And, you know, the Scripture says, he says that his word is a light unto our path, a lamp unto our feet. And you wanted that word of God in your heart. And, you know, again, in the same Psalm, he says, I have hid thy word in my heart that I might not sin against you, see. And so that’s exactly what we want to have that and the word of God is our guide. And we have to be careful. On my program, I read from a lot of different Christian authors, people like Martyn Lloyd Jones, A.W. Tozer, Andrew Murray, and these men have, I’m standing on their shoulders. And some of their stuff is just priceless. And I’ll just read it. You know, it’s like having them in my studio, if you will, you know, and very good stuff. I’m curious about what you mean by how your experience, it passes the intellect. How was, God gave us our intellect, and he gave us our mind. And in our mind, we have a will. And I’m thinking that we have to use our will to go with God. Is the will, and the intellect connected that way?

Janine Bolon
For the particular way that I live life. First of all, I’m a scholar from the get go. I absolutely love to read and I love to study. And so I, I cherish my intellect. However, there’s a side of me that I know is intuitive. And I would have certain experiences in my life that I will talk about after we get back from our break. I’d like you to stay with us. This is Janine Bolon and Keith, the host of Pursuit of God, he has his show on every Saturday at noon here on KHNC. After the break, we’re going to continue to have a civil conversation about matters of Christianity and how those fundamentals of Christianity can be used in your own life. We’ll be right back.

Janine Bolon
Welcome back. This is Janine Bolon and Keith, the host of Pursuit of God that you can hear on KHNC, he has his own show where he wanted to talk about the fundamentals of Christianity and bring them back into the conversation. And when we left the break, Keith was asking me about the experiences that I had regarding the intellect and intuition. And one of the answers that I’d like to give is that the intellect can get us so far, but the mind cannot control the mind, there’s a point where we do have free will. And there’s a point where the mind is unable to control the mind. And one of the things that I wanted was the experience of God, I had read so many amazing stories, not only in the New Testament, but the Old Testament, the Bhagavad Gita, and the writings that people had written about Buddhism. And I had heard of these ecstasies that people would go into to where they had a two way conversation with God. And so that was my whole path. And so at some point, I realized that you had to get beyond the layer of thought, and what was interesting with my experience, as I moved into that state of ecstasy and two way communication with God, and I defined myself as a Christian mystic, because I, I like to say, I’m a recovering Catholic, if you will. But I had an experience that caused me to be born again, is what a lot of fundamentalist Christians may call that. And that experience caused me to see the layers that go into how a soul incarnates into a body. And I knew that I had to get past the analytical mind that I had. And I wanted to get into that two way communication with God. And that was through meditation, and that contemplation of correcting my will and turning to that divine well, that Keith was talking about in the very first segment that we had. So as we move forward with this conversation, I would love for you Keith to talk to us a little bit more about the fundamentals, because they’re near and dear to my heart, which is to love the Lord your God, with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul and all your strength. Now, that may not be in everybody’s Bible, but that’s how I remembered it from what I was taught, feel free to expand a little bit on what that means to you my friend.

Keith Lilley
I think the way you remember is very close to what the Lord intended. Everything that we are, everything that we think, Jesus, or Paul, in his writings, he exhorts us to bring every thought captive to obedience to Jesus Christ. And I mean, that’s like impossible. Because our minds are, as a meditator, you know, full well, the problems they’ve had brings in because then you silence yourself, it explodes into everything else. And you know, right. And so, to meditate, we do need to meditate. Now, I’m a little bit different than to Buddhist, I will not empty my mind, that way. What I do is I empty me of myself, and I focus on God and in order to focus on God, I use his word, because the word of God is God’s heart revealed to mankind. A lot of people say the Bible is God’s love letter to mankind. So it’s a very simple way of putting it, but it’s also God’s very exacting, detailed instructions, if you ever heard the Bible, basic instructions before leaving Earth, right. So we need the Word of God to guide us through this life. There are a lot of things happening in society right now where society is totally screwed up. Isaiah the prophet 700 years before Jesus, so that’s what 2700 years ago, talked about a time when they would call good, evil, and they would call evil, good. And we see that today. Right in front of us. People are in their lifestyle, which is evil, and they’re calling it good. And then when people like me call them out and say, wait a minute, that’s wrong, they’re calling me bad. Because I stand up for the righteousness of God. And so we’re seeing that they’re calling bitter, sweet, and sweet, bitter. And they’re confused. The world is absolutely topsy turvy. And so in my program, I’m trying to bring back a levity, and a seriousness, and what the Bible calls the fear of God. We need to have a very strong fear of God. And I’m not talking about, you know, people think they need to be afraid and I guess there is part of that. I mean, God is a perfect God, he’s a righteous God, and he’s a judgmental God. But all of that is based on a foundation of love. God is love, the scriptures tell us. And so his righteousness is shown forth, by His love, by His mercy through His grace, and His grace as Jesus Christ. And God wants so much to have that relationship with us. You. Yeah. It’s interesting. You call yourself a recovering Catholic? Is that what you said?

Janine Bolon
Yes, that’s a joke among people who have left the church, and who have left to solaces. And we call ourselves recovering Catholics. Yeah.

Keith Lilley
Well I have left the Catholic Church, and so I call myself an ex-Catholic. Because, again, that’s religion. The Catholic Church is a picture of religion, where they got religious, and they made all this ceremony and all this pomp and circumstance, and they totally miss God. Oh, we’re not too surprised at that because when Jesus walked the earth, who did he ever problem with? It wasn’t with the prostitutes, it wasn’t with the tax collectors, you know, he had a problem with the religious elite. They’re the ones who had the word of God. They’re the ones that he had the most woes for. I mean, he’s very serious against them. And what we need to do is simply take God at His Word. So when the Scripture says, Love the Lord your God, then we need to find out what God’s about. And God shows us what he is about, in His Word. And I make this statement, the heart of God is the law of God, or the Word of God, or the commandments of God, or the statutes of God. That is his heart. And he gives us that new heart when we are born again. He says in Ezekiel, chapter 36, a new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh, a heart that’s moldable and soft, and able to respond to the love of God. And so for us to love God means to obey God. The two go hand in hand, Jesus says, If you love Me, keep My commandments. And so all these so called Christians running around doing what they want to do again, and they’re not obeying God. I simply point out to them, don’t think you’re going to heaven, just because you’re in church on Sunday. Just because you read your Bible every day. James says, Don’t just be a hearer of the word, but be ye doers of the word. And if his word doesn’t change our life, then maybe we haven’t met him. I like to ask my audience, anybody here been to the sun? Raise your hand. Well, nobody raises their hand and I said, I knew that if somebody raises their hand, I can immediately say liar, because if you go to the sun, you change. And I can hold you in the palm of my hand as a little pile of carbon dust. You cannot meet God and stay the same. It’s impossible.

Janine Bolon
I totally agree. I totally agree.

Keith Lilley
Yeah, he will absolutely change your life. And so you have these people running around, I don’t know if I have to name names, but I know

Janine Bolon
No, that’s okay. I think we all have our own image in our heads of who’s running around.

Keith Lilley
It gives Christianity a bad name, and I just always have to jump on there and say, he’s not a Christian. Okay, so he has no clue. And always ask God, I go, let me have a cup of coffee with this guy. I don’t know who he’s talking to, but they’re guiding him wrong. And there are a lot of false teachers, Jesus warned us, you know, there’s gonna be a lot of false teachers. In the last days, I believe strongly that we are in the last days. And it’s not going to be a very pretty picture as time goes on.

Janine Bolon
Oh, the biggest thing is to make the kingdom of heaven here on earth, but men cannot see it. That was one of the things that I really enjoyed when I was reading some scripture. And like I said, I’m not as good as you, Keith, I can’t quote chapter and verse. But one of the things that I enjoy is that there are people running around this planet that have had experiences similar to mine, they’re not exact, because that’s how benevolent God is, is that every mystic that has that two way conversation with him will experience a different side of the Divine. And as I’ve chatted with people who have had these life transformative experiences, they all have the same thing, which is the kingdom of heaven is here on Earth, but people cannot see it, because they’re so busy with that will thing moving in their own direction. And after the break, Keith and I are going to give you a chance to kind of contemplate what we’re talking about here as far as the fundamentals of Christianity, Keith is the host of Pursuit of God, that you can find here on KHNC every Saturday at 11am Denver, Mountain Time. And we’re going to have what we call this show is civility and conversation, it doesn’t mean that we ask that you agree with everything we’re saying. But we want you to go after your own answers and find them in the way that you feel is most appropriate for you. And we will be back after this break.

Janine Bolon
Welcome back, this is Janine Bolon, and with me today is host Pursuit of God, Keith. Keith is with us, and we’re having a very civil conversation regarding Christianity, the differences between mysticism and the fundamentals, as well as the type of life path that each of us have taken. One of the things I didn’t know before about Keith, that I just realized is he’s also I say, I’m a recovering Catholic, he says he’s an ex-Catholic. But both of us had very clear directives on where we wanted to go with our particular spirituality in our lives. So Keith, if you don’t mind, share with us a little bit about what moved you from Catholicism to where you find yourself today.

Keith Lilley
Um, as I was growing up, I went to a Catholic school for the first eight years. And it was during that time, I felt the call of God on my life. And so back then I thought I was going to be a priest. And I’m like, no, no, God, I love you and everything, but I don’t want to be a priest. And as I got older, and I went into a public high school, and realized that not only did people not think the Catholic Church was the one true church, they didn’t even believe in God. And that blew me away.

Janine Bolon
Yeah, I bet it did.

Keith Lilley
And, when I got out of high school, the one thing that Catholic Church did for me in those first eight years, is that they taught me God as a reality, the way they taught me math, reading, and science, and the realities in those subjects. And God was one of those realities. And so when I got out of high school, man, I had a very clear choice. I was on the path to go left into a life of crime and debauchery. I was on that path, that wide path that leads to destruction, man, I’m there. And in the middle of all of that, because of the reality of God in my life, such as it was, religion back then. It made me stop and say, you know what I really need to find out about this God business because if all of this stuff is true about God, I’m on the wrong road, man. So in the middle of all my debauchery back then sex, drugs and rock and roll. Because I got out of high school in 74, right at the tail end of the whole sexual revolution and everything. I said, you know, I’m going to read the Bible. And I’m going to find out if this stuff is true. And sure enough, I didn’t have to read very long before I was convicted. And I gave my life to the Lord, you know, in the middle of all my debauchery, and God delivered me from a lot of stuff. Some of it overnight, some of it took months. But nonetheless, I came out of that. And God put very key people in my life to guide me and to encourage me in his word, I had a very defining moment in when the mother of my children, my first marriage, she left me, and it crushed me, it absolutely crushed me, and about shut my faith. And in Peter, he says that don’t be surprised at the fiery trials of your faith, because at the end, it will be found to bring glory to God. And so that fiery trial for me, what’s the word? It brought my faith to the forefront. And I didn’t understand what God was doing. But I trusted him. And that gave me a foundation for the rest of my walk with God. And so to me, the Catholic Church was very religious, and all their pomp and circumstance, I couldn’t find that in the Word. You know, there’s no Pope. There are Bishops, but they’re called Overseers, what we would call today maybe as a Pastor or an Elder. And it’s just not the way, the Word of God is different from what the Catholic Church presents. And then if you look at the history of the Catholic Church, it’s pretty ugly. And so I got out of that, and just started my own relationship with God based upon a born again, experience, doing God’s thing, God’s way for God’s glory.

Janine Bolon
And I’d like to go back to that defining moment. Because when you’re in that moment, where you do not understand what’s going on with you, or why whatever the event is, why is this happening to me, you stand there, as a human being on planet Earth going, why is this happening? And you stand there without an answer? And then slowly, piece by piece, you get certain people in your life or certain texts come to you certain books that you start reading? How did you walk yourself out? I know that we have God’s grace, and that is what is moving through our lives. But still, you had to make choices. You were having to make daily choices. Do you mind talking a little bit about that?

Keith Lilley
Yes, that’s it. You’re You’re very observant, that way. I say that when you hear that gospel presented, you are confronted with your will. And that never, ever changes in all. We use our will to say yes, God, I am a sinner. Yes, God, I need you. Yes, God, I believe that what Jesus did on the cross was for me, I believe in the resurrection power. And God comes to live in you. That’s the born again, experience, God, miracle of miracle, holy cow. I can’t explain any of that. But the Holy Spirit God Himself comes and he goes into believer. And I want to do, to show make sure that we understand. You said something that I do want to kind of highlight that I disagree with, that you said that the kingdom of God is on earth. Jesus says the kingdom of God is within. It’s within me. And as I live out the kingdom of God in my sphere of influence, that’s where the kingdom is. I’m not so sure, I would say the kingdom of God is on earth, the earth is pretty screwed up. And we know that Satan is the god of this earth. He is the God of the world. All the worldly power. So if that’s just a distinction I’d like to throw out there. But for me at that time, yeah, this is getting pretty personal, but I guess I’ll share it. I went up to that mountain. And what happened was God, there’s a verse in the Bible that says, let not man put asunder what God has put together and it’s the context is marriage. Marriage is an institution that God created. And when my marriage fell apart, I had stood for my marriage. And, my wife just said, you know, later, and I was suicidal. I mean, I just, I had three little children that I was so in love with, and just thought that you know, and when I thought about throwing myself off a cliff up in the Colorado Rockies, I knew God wasn’t gonna intervene. I just knew that. So I said, Okay, and so I was gonna walk away from God, and that lasted for about 30 seconds. Because there’s a scripture where Jesus had preached some very hard things, and everybody left him, and he turned to his apostles, and he said, so you’re going to leave me too? And Peter goes, where are we going to go? You’re all we got. And that’s what came into my head when I said, God, I just can’t, I can’t trust you. I cannot trust you on this, you know? And he goes, Okay, see ya. And then for 30 seconds, I thought of life without God, and I could not comprehend it. I could not, where am I going to go? So I said, All right. All right. I can’t do that. And he says, well, then you’re gonna have to trust me. Because he never answered the why. Why did she, you know, he never ever told me that. And so I had to make a will, like you said, I had to exercise my will, and say, Lord, I am going to trust you. And the scripture says, The just shall live by faith. And it also says that without faith, it is impossible to please God. And so at that moment, I made a decision of my will, that I’m going to live by faith. And I knew that, that would please the Father. And He has carried me every step of the way ever since then.

Janine Bolon
And to me as a Christian mystic, that is what drives my desire to get to know people better, is those decisions that were made. That’s how I can stay very civil, in conversations with people of very diverse backgrounds, very diverse spirituality, because they have these experiences that were key stones in their lives. And thank you for clarifying the kingdom of God is within because that is as a mystic that is, we carry that contentment, that peace, that grace within our heart, and then it magnifies out into the world. And then we do create a calming influence. And that’s one of the things that I want to just say, thank you very much for having your show Pursuit of God and being that calm, cool voice of reason, sometimes with Hey, we don’t have to get up in each other’s face about this, we can coexist quite peacefully if everybody just calm down a little bit. And that was one of the things that really intrigued me about your show. So we have about a minute and 30 seconds left anything you’d care to share with the listeners before we sign off today?

Keith Lilley
I like your I don’t wanna call it theme, but your insistence, your magnification of that word, civility? You’re absolutely right. There is no reason. I have talked with Muslims, Hindus, the whole gay community about everything, and I’ve had very good exhortating conversations with everybody from all backgrounds. And I’m not going to get mad, I’m not going to get violent if you don’t believe like me. We all have our own wills, we all can make our own choice. I’m just going to shed my light. You can talk to me about your thing. And at the end, I’m going to give you a big hug. And I’m going to love you and work right next to you all day long. And I’ve done that, I’ve had a lot of guys that I’ve had to work with that absolutely do not appreciate where I’m coming from.

Janine Bolon
I understand, I understand. So forgive me for cutting you off, Keith, but we’re gonna have to go. But I wanted to say thank you so much for joining us on The Janine Bolon show. And don’t forget to listen to Pursuit of God with Keith. And that is at 11 o’clock on Saturdays on KHNC.

Bryan Hyde
Thank you for listening to the Janine Bolon Show. Be sure to subscribe to our show notes by going to www.thejaninebolonshow.com, where you’ll find additional resources as well as the opportunity to sign up to receive our program in your email each week. Be sure to visit our sponsor at www.the8gates.com.