The Janine Bolon Show Rebecca Starns and Dr. Vic Starns - Compassionate Collaboration and Connection

Compassionate Collaboration and Connection with Dr. Vic & Rebecca Starns

Dr. Vic & Rebecca Starns

In this show Janine & the Starns discuss Maslow’s Self-Actualization process and how you can use it toward your own self-development, but then take it out into your community so you can connect with others on a deeper level. 

When Maslow first started discussing the traits of a self-actualized individual, he was really showing us how we can express freedom for ourselves and those around us through these 12 characteristics. 

First off, what is self-actualization? Maslow describes it as the good life that a person is directed toward and that there is a deep seated need to maximize their potential. Doing the best that you are capable of doing at each point in your life. Maslow studied individuals that he believed were self actualized such as Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Elenor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein. From these individuals and others he derived the common characteristics that are listed below. You may wish to learn more from Maslow’s book, “Motivation and Personality.

1) Self-actualized people embrace the unknown and the ambiguous.

2) They accept themselves, together with all their flaws.

3) They prioritize and enjoy the journey, not just the destination.

4) While they are inherently unconventional, they do not seek to shock or disturb.

5) They are motivated by growth, not by the satisfaction of needs.

6) Self-actualized people have purpose.

7) They are not troubled by the small things.

8) Self-actualized people are grateful.

9) They share deep relationships with a few, but also feel identification and affection towards the entire human race.

10) Self-actualized people are humble.

11) Self-actualized people resist enculturation.

12) Despite all this, self-actualized people are not perfect.  “There are no perfect human beings! Persons can be found who are good, very good indeed, in fact, great. […] And yet these very same people can at times be boring, irritating, petulant, selfish, angry, or depressed. To avoid disillusionment with human nature, we must first give up our illusions about it.”

Rebecca Starns

Rebecca is from the Mid-West, a former Montessori teacher and business owner. She believes in freedom in every sense of the word. Every person, each individual, has a valuable voice and is an integral part of our world. Just as the energy of freedom is growth, so is the energy of forests, rivers, oceans, animals, and all nature. 

Dr. Victor Starns

Dr. Vic has a Doctor of Management from Colorado Technical University. He currently has a radio program called “Dr. Vic How’s it going on” and teaches project management classes at Colorado Tech. As a research scientist, he is researching topics on behavioral science and human intuition. Dr. Vic is a freedom-loving patriotic American and would never trade freedom for security.

Transcript of the Show

Bryan Hyde
Welcome to the Janine Bolon show, where we share tips from around the globe as we guide practical people with their finances using money tips, increase their incomes through side businesses, and maintain their sanity by staying in their creative zone.

Janine Bolon
And welcome, this is Janine Bolon, and I’m so grateful that you were here on the show with me today. One of the things I absolutely love about being a radio show personality and host is the fact that I get to talk to other cool, amazing radio show hosts, and we happen to have with us today Dr. Vic Starns, and Rebecca Starns, who happened to be a part of the KHNC family with Dr. Vic, How’s it going on? So let’s start with Rebecca because you know, as we know, there’s always a powerful person behind the throne behind the front man and she is it. Rebecca is from the Midwest and a former Montessori teacher, and business owner. She believes in freedom in every sense of the word, every person, each individual has a valuable voice and is integral to our part of the world, just as energy or freedom is growth. So is the energy of forests, rivers, oceans, animals, and all of nature. Now, that’s what Rebecca likes to bring to the program. The thing that Dr. Vic likes to bring to the program is he’s a Doctor of Management from Colorado Tech University. He currently has a radio program called Dr. Vic, How’s it going on?, and teaching teachers project management classes at Colorado Tech. As a research Scientist, he is researching topics on Behavioral Science and Human Intuition. Dr. Vic is a freedom loving, patriotic American, who would never trade freedom for security. I want to say welcome you both to the show.

Rebecca Starns
Thank you.

Janine Bolon
So let’s go ahead and just launch right and one of the things I love is there’s always a story behind the story. And so we’re gonna start with you, Dr. Vic, talk to us about this show. Dr. Vic, How’s it going on? And then we’re going to talk about how Rebecca happens to blend in her skill set as well. So if you don’t mind, what’s the story behind this show? Why did you even start it?

Dr. Vic Starns
Well, we kind of fell into it, we, you know, KHNC has, one of their people that own it are Patriot Gold. So we bought some gold from the company and we were up talking to Jason Walker. And, you know, he was talking about doing radio shows. And so I’d like to do a radio show, I’d like to do one to get out, you know what I think about things and, you know, we talked about it, me and Rebecca and she was behind it, but when we started she didn’t want anything to do with being on air at all. She said no, not gonna do it, it’s your show, you just do it the way you want to do it. And so she would come up with me, and she would sit across with the headphones on, and she had a live mic if she wanted to use it, and I would see that look in her eye. Like, I really wanted to say something about this. So I’d say Rebecca, What do you think? And then she would tell me, and, you know, I kind of wanted to keep it more business and not so political, but you can’t really do business without addressing politics, and things that are happening in the world. I got the name, Dr. Vic, of course. But how’s it going on, one of my really good friends is from Saudi Arabia, and he would call me up and say, Hi, Dr. Vic, how’s it going on? You know, and so I kind of looked into that, and but it really means like, what I like to say it means is, how are we moving forward? How do we move forward? This is what’s going on? How do we move forward? How do we find solutions for this? My reason I got my doctorate was I was very frustrated in the business world and project management and you know, people making the same mistakes over and over again. Something would happen in a project and the whole team would go into fight or flight or freeze.

Janine Bolon
Sometimes yes, sometimes frozen in place. You got it.

Dr. Vic Starns
So, what I like to teach the people that I’m working with, my students, is that you can train your brain to when these things happen, to take that deep breath, whether it’s real or imaginary, and go into solution mode. You don’t have to stay in the fight or flight, you can automatically go into solution. And you know, our brains are geared to do that if we train them. So that was one of the things that got me into the show. I like to talk about business, I like to talk about investments, I like to talk about doing real world work. And, you know, I was frustrated with project management, and I tell people that go into a Doctoral program in Business, I’ll say, Well, what was your pet peeve when you’re in business? And they would tell me, Hey, that’s your dissertation. How do we solve this? How do we find a solution for that?

Janine Bolon
And that was what made it rock and roll from that point on. So hey, Rebecca, I wanted to bring you in too. So tell us your story behind the story, because, yeah, Dr. Vic, it’s his radio show you were going to totally be, you know, the supportive, Yeah, go honey makes this happen. And then he’s putting headphones on you and gives you a live mic. Now, that’s a very hard thing to resist. Talk to us a little bit about how you came through on that.

Rebecca Starns
Well, like he said, I was there as a support person, but would get excited over different points and want to throw in my two cents. And I’d get very passionate about things. And I appreciate Vic, he’s like, calm, cool, collected, but I get kind of fired up. And when I see something that I think is just very wrong, very incorrect that’s going on, I like to point it out, because that’s my belief. I feel like some people don’t see something that is so out of sorts right in front of us. Maybe we’re just used to it. And I’m kind of like that barking Chihuahua, like, you know, look at this, look at this.

Janine Bolon
It’s one of those things, that well, as a homeschooler, because I homeschooled my four children. And when they got to high school level, I gave them an opportunity. I said, I can continue to be your teacher or we can have you run through a variety of either charter schools or public school. Because I always felt, my children, you are in charge of your own education. If you don’t learn how to think by the time you hit high school level, that’s going to be a challenge for you the rest of your life. So the Montessori method teaches us, right, that nothing is more powerful than a free thinking individual. And you do everything through the Montessori technique, who happened to be a Doctor who wrote 124 volumes on how to educate the young. I mean, this woman was amazing for her time. So the fact that you’re trained in that, talk to us a little bit about how that training kind of defined for you how you’d like to present information to people.

Rebecca Starns
Well, and I love that you did that with your children Janine, and I think it’s about self actualization. Letting people make an error to be self correcting. And that’s just the best way to learn is when we do something ourselves. And as a teacher, in the Montessori classroom, we would demonstrate the proper way to do things, and then allow the child to pick up on that and build on their strengths. So I guess I do incorporate that a little bit into my relationships with family and friends and probably on the radio also.

Janine Bolon
Yeah, you’re used to demonstrating. So I always found it fascinating when I first was chatting with the two of you. You have this Montessori based teacher, who is very hands on, that’s like very kinesthetic. Students thrive in that system, right? Because I’m doing finally. I’m not having to sit and just listen, I can do. And then here you have Dr. Vic, who’s like, Yeah, let’s talk about the behaviors that are totally malleable in the human brain if you would just be aware. So you guys brought up self actualization. So Maslow, we all love Maslow on that regard. Right? So Dr. Vic, talk to us a little bit about what your dear beloved is saying regarding self actualization. What is that? And why is that important for people like you?

Dr. Vic Starns
Well, for me, and I’ve been doing this for a long time. And, you know, I read a lot about, you know, personal mastery, I actually practice it I actually, people I mentor, that’s one of the top subjects we talked about is self actualization. You know, Maslow had a quote that said, you can either step forward into growth or step backward into safety. And I really liked that, and I have that on my announcements and for my students. And I put that in there. Because we have a tendency to want to just be safe, and we don’t want to step out. Doing the doctoral program, it was a no brainer for me. I had, you know, I had met the people and I had the dissertation ready. I did my doctorate in three years. So I started writing my dissertation on day one. And I started doing the research, I started doing everything I needed to do. And, you know, it works in business, self actualization, when you teach that to people, when you let people become their higher self, when you give them the chance to challenge theirselves to step out into a job that they’re not sure of, but you just tell them that you will make mistakes, but it’s okay. So it’s one of the things that I’ve worked on myself about, and you know, I used to tell people, me and Rebecca, the reason we got along so well is that she was a kindergarten Montessori teacher and that helped with our relationship.

Janine Bolon
Keeps it very basic. Now when we come back, we’re going to go to our sponsors here for a minute. When we come back we’re going to hear Rebecca’s side of it. We’re going to talk about self actualization, because that’s one of the most powerful things any individual can do. Not only for themselves in their own personal relationships, but if you want to change a community, become self actualized. We’ll talk about that after the break.

Janine Bolon
And welcome back and I am here with Dr. Vic Starns and Rebecca Starns of the radio show, Dr. Vic, How’s it going on? As we move forward and describe, and discuss self actualization? I want people who are used to Maslow and his hierarchy of needs, but one of the things a lot of people don’t know is he had a 12 step program before the Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, he was doing 12 steps back then. So we’d like Rebecca, since you’re the Montessori teacher, and yes, I know, kindergarten. But like they say, in pretty much every culture, it’s like we got to get back to rice, and beans is what some cultures say, or when it’s all about the noodles. What you learned in kindergarten is extremely important. So talk to us a little bit about self actualization, what it means to you, and how you’ve integrated Maslow’s 12 step program in your own life?

Rebecca Starns
Well, thanks for the question. I’ve been thinking lately about reconnecting, like how we can reconnect with ourselves. I noticed that people will get very attached to their electronics, and there’ll be a beep or a tone, and people will just leap, you know, leap to grab the phone because there’s so wired into that. And I think we have kind of an inherent internet within ourselves. and you’ve probably experienced this and all your listeners, you’re thinking about maybe your cousin or a good girlfriend, and then all of a sudden they call you, you know, there is that connectivity that we have with the people and the world at large. And I think it’s so important to tap into that, that it’s an actual power. It’s a resource that we can use, listening to ourself and doing the things you know, like you can go to places, I know around Colorado, where I live, you can go to places where you can detox from electronics you know, kind of get back to basics. You were talking about noodles or the rice, you know, the root of our connectivity to spirit or the universe or your higher power, and ourselves. You know, having that connection to where, we can see where we’re going. We can realize what’s important to us, and what we want. Does that answer your question?

Janine Bolon
It does. And so Maslow talks about these 12 steps of self actualization, and the reason I’m hitting on this so much is because when we were first talking, before we had this show, we were talking about how we want to bring our communities together, we want very much to bring the ability to have very intelligent yet calm dialogue. And we were talking about even if we talk politics, even if we’re in disagreement with each other, that there are ways through self actualization to be able to have a calm dialogue, which is not seen when you’re on the internet, or you’re looking at youtube comments or what have you. And so I would love for the two of you will go with Dr. Vic first. And then Rebecca will follow up with you. Talk to us about some of the things you use from self actualization and the 12 steps of Maslow on what you do in your communities to create that dialogue. And even if there is disagreement, how do you go about moving through that? So Dr. Vic,

Dr. Vic Starns
Thank you. You know, for me, I’ve been intuitive ever since I was a small child. And they would call it today, ADHD, as if he wanted me to sit in the chair, you might as well duct tape me to it. And someone would walk by the window and I’d get up and go see where they were going, and they’d say, are you less than I say no, I’m not. And they put me out in the coat rack. So I had a very, I always tell people that school was the roughest 12 years of my life. And later on, as I went back to school, I started to enjoy it, I went to Colorado Tech. It’s an applied learning university where what you learned today, you can use tomorrow. So with my intuition, when people would tell me stuff, and I knew it wasn’t right, I would just okay, and I would just ignore it, because I would find out why they were saying that. And I didn’t buy into everything they told me in school. And it was just crazy. So I use them in my personal life and in my communities. I just talked to people, I say, what if this was going on? Or how would you handle a situation if you found out this had happened? And I do that in my business, in my classes, and when I consult people. I do a consulting call. It’s a combination of action, research, and process consultation, and see, there’s another one, I can’t bring it off top of my head. But what I do when I consult with them is the first thing I ask them, I say, tell me a story of what you do well, what project, what part of your business did you do well? And they would tell me and they’d be really excited. I said, Why did you quit doing that? That’s what you do? Well, we had to keep up with competition. I said, Well, you want to be ahead of the competition, but you want to be ahead of it in what you do well. And so I get companies back on track, I get people back on track. Quit trying to do what other people are doing, do what you do well, do what you feel, you know, a personal, you know, self actualization. What makes you tick, what do you do? You know, and interesting enough, if you’ve ever read Peter Senge’s book, The Fifth Discipline around page 53, he says the best program for personal mastery is the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. So that was interesting. It’s like, well, that’s a 12 Step Program that’s like Maslow’s 12 Step. And, you know, you have to, and I tell people using Maslow’s scale is if you’re not thriving at the level, you’re at, go back to the level below and thrive there and then try it again.

Janine Bolon
Right, because you and I both know that all successful people know this, how did you become successful? I failed really well. I failed a lot. And I got to where I would fail faster than the guy beside me, and that’s how I became the master of my field. Right? And a lot of people were like, What are you talking about? I said Ask any athlete they fail every day, but they’re back on the track making it happen because you know, they have these bars you know people talk about your stretch goals and all that and like what if you know you’re gonna fail? People like to say. So, what do you know if you couldn’t fail, what would you go after? Right? That’s another way of phrasing what we’re talking about. But I just wanted to let you know, a lot of times it’s fail faster, you know, you’re not trying enough things. If you’re not thriving, it’s because you have limited yourself sometimes. And I love then, there’s also an equally powerful metaphor that Dr. Vic talks about, which is go back, like, go back to rice and beans go back to the basics, what were you really, really good at? And sometimes that’s a much better starting point. Okay, what do I enjoy doing what’s exciting? So Rebecca, we’d love to hear your two cents on this about your personal work that you do for your self actualization. And then how you create a wonderful dialogue with community on that, right? You know, because that’s what we’re really all about here in radio is we’re building community, and being able to help people understand how to go about having civil conversations.

Rebecca Starns
Thank you, I think building on strengths as far as the community, like meeting on that common ground, all the things that we can actually relate to, and, you know, listening, really listening to other people about what they need and where they’re coming from. And I think most people can always relate to another person on some level, you know, starting there, where there’s some warmth and caring, and just human concern. And, you know, starting there, I think it takes away a lot of those rough edges of, of the politics and, you know, possible disagreements with, there’s a lot of polarization going on in the world, you know, left, right. I mean, just all of that, where people can get stuck. And I think it’s important to, you know, meet in the middle as much as we can. And, I love meeting in person, I know, we’re both in the radio, and, you know, we have to communicate and other ways of getting together. I mean, I just think there’s a lot of richness in that. That is so important, when we can and not be so isolated.

Janine Bolon
I do know that one of the things that’s been helpful has been all the technology for getting you to be able to be in a room with 50 other people, you know, on online and that sort of thing. But the other thing that is exciting to me is being able to take what we have as far as tech and then using it to really humanize a situation. And so there was a book written in the 90s, called Future Shock. And that’s where that context of high tech, high touch, they knew that as more and more technology came into our world, we would also have to have a high touch element not only to our businesses, but to our relationships. So we have about two minutes here. So Dr. Vic, do you want to kind of take a bite off of that, and tell us what you think?

Dr. Vic Starns
Well, you know, community is so important. And one of the things I talked about on the show, is to start producing the things we need in our own communities. Don’t be waiting on other countries to be bringing food in, or whatever we need to learn, maybe go back to farming. The big thing a while back was learning to code. How about learn to farm about learn to manufacture? How about learning to do things, you know. The best economy I can think of is the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker, where your communities are self sufficient. And they’re not reliant on outside help, and their people are not sitting in their houses, waiting for someone to feed them like a baby bird. So, we have to learn self actualization, we have to learn to get the things that we need, no matter what they are. If the 12 steps, you know, we still got to have food, we got to have clean air, we’ve got to have water, you know, if they take those things away from us, we’re really going to be hurting.

Janine Bolon
I agree. Rebecca, you want to chime in with this last minute we have on this session?

Rebecca Starns
Well, I like what you were saying about touch, I think connectivity. I mean, I always hear that word as far as like, you know, the internet, my connectivity is down. But having like that connectivity with other people. And I think it starts with ourselves, you know, we have to be aware of where we’re coming from, what’s important to us what we need, and then meet other people physically as much as we can with hugs, and warm greetings, and just genuine concern. You know, the human element is so important.

Janine Bolon
And we’re going to talk more about bringing in the human element to your community when we come back from this quick break.

Janine Bolon
So welcome back. This is Janine Bolon with the Janine Bolon show, and with me today, I have Dr. Vic, and Rebecca, who happened to be co-hosts here. And they also have their own radio show, Dr. Vic, How’s it going on? What we’re talking about today is connectivity with your community. And we’re also talking about how you go about making the type of life that you want. And this is not something where it’s like power, positive thinking stuff like that, although that can be very helpful. This is the to do the action items that you can go through, as you’re walking through Maslow’s 12 steps of self actualization, or whatever you want to talk about it. This is about really connecting with your community, such as I was lucky enough to be a friend of a 78 year old woman who knew of a carousel that was going to be dismantled in one city, and she desperately wanted it brought to the city that we live in. And she was working with the city organizers, city planner, she was going to Chamber of Commerce meetings, she had a coffee club that we would meet every Saturday morning, we were talking about this carousel and bringing it to our city. And what was fascinating was just the community that she built all around this one little passion, not so little, it was a huge carousel. But we were looking for places and we were just learning so much about our community. And I had just moved to my community like six months previous. So it was a delight to be able to talk to people who’d been in the town for over 20 years, telling all these stories, learning all this history. And so if you’re finding that there isn’t something right in what you have in your community, whether you are living in downtown Denver or whatever. Dr. Vic talk to us a little bit about how you chat with your students about how you go about making it happen for yourself. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Dr. Vic Starns
Well, one of the things that I tried to get them to do is to reach out and do their own research. And they’re always saying, can’t you just give us that template? Couldn’t you just give us this? Couldn’t you just give us that? I said I could, but I won’t. They said, why not? I said because if I give it to you, everybody would use this one, whether it fits your project or not, whether it was the best one for you, or whatever, you would just do what I put out there. So we have this great internet, that we can go out on and look for things and, you know, do their project that’s totally them. And just like my dissertation, Rebecca, said, when I read your dissertation, it just sounded like you. It was yours, you know, it was your writing it was how you feel about things. And that’s what I think, one of the things I had to, step out in faith on this thing, and, you know, to do this dissertation being the ADHD kid that they told me that I would never do anything but dig ditches. And, you know, I just wanted to prove them wrong, I guess. I don’t know, I wanted to figure out who I was, why I was the way I was, and instead of being ADHD and now I’m wired by the grace of God. He put me this way for a special reason for me to be me. You see the world doesn’t need another Moses, or another Jesus, or another prophet, or any of these things, or a great businessman or whatever. He created me to be myself. And I need to be the best self I can be. And I tell this to people all the time, no matter what you do, no matter how you feel, bring your best self to the table always.

Janine Bolon
And I totally agree with that. But you also have so many wonderful tips. So that’s what we’re gonna dig into is because of the background you’ve had, and because of the challenges that you’ve experienced, you kind of have a process that you walk your students through. So like the first one you talked about was, if you’re not thriving, where you are, take a step back. I mean, that’s wonderful, like take a step back to where when you were thriving, start fresh and go from there. What are some other things like you’re encouraging people to go out and be their best selves? Well, a lot of people feel very disconnected. So how do we connect with who we really are when we have a lot of messaging that may be against what we feel we really are, you know what I’m saying?

Dr. Vic Starns
I understand that, and one of the things me and Rebecca did a long time ago, probably 17-18 years ago, we unplugged from the television. And we just didn’t own a television, we didn’t watch TV, we read books, you know. The Internet hadn’t really took off and there wasn’t that much on there. And personally I’m very disappointed in computers. I’m very disappointed in tech because I always expect so much more from it than what it does. And I’m like I could do that doesn’t, you know, they’re not saving me time, they’re actually costing me time because none of it works, right. And then I fiddle around trying to get it to work. So I tell my students to be themselves, you know, to be who they are, and don’t look at the other person. And I would tell people at work that, and they’d say, Well, what about this guy? I say, you don’t like what he’s doing? They say, No, I said, well, then quit looking at him. Quit watching him. Just do what’s in front of you, you know, and I tell everybody that just do what’s on your plate today. You know, don’t worry about tomorrow or yesterday, do what’s on your plate. If you didn’t do it yesterday, it’s on your plate today. So do what you need to do.

Janine Bolon
Eventually, you need to make that happen for yourself. So when I was a young mother, and I had four little kids under the age of seven, and I was trying to run my business and write a book, and I was working on my Masters, so I had a lot going on, there were some days that I would be so burnout, and so sleep deprived, that all I could do was a load of dishes and a load of laundry. And that was a banner day, that was like, okay, cuz I found in my own systems, that laundry and dishes actually takes longer if you let it slide. So only do the things that won’t make more time, like you said, tech, like when people say, oh, yeah, I’ll just get on the computer. And I’ll crank that out. And I always go at 30 minutes, because something inevitably will catch your attention. Because I have that shiny object syndrome like a lot of business owners. This is why we’re creative by the way, this is why we’re good at what we do is because we have that shiny object syndrome. So don’t bust on yourself for that. But just be aware to set a timer. And that’s been my saving grace. That’s where tech helps me is that I have timers go off and I go, Oh, 30 minutes has passed. Because I don’t know about you, Rebecca. But if I get really focused in on what I’m doing, I’ll forget to eat, I’ll forget to sleep, I’ll go for hours, because I’m so engrossed in what I’m doing. So talk to us a little bit about how you can build to that level, if that’s not part of your nature?

Rebecca Starns
Well, um, for me, you’re probably familiar with Marie Kondo. She used the phrase, keep the things that spark joy, she was a great organizer and cleaner person. And, I like that idea of finding what brings us joy, like, what do we love what feeds us? And for me, that might be going for a walk in nature. I love soaking in the hot springs, you know, whenever I get a chance to do that. Being quiet and meditating, reading, I feel like it’s so important to charge ourselves and to be self responsible, to be self aware, like, what is it that I need? What is it that I love? What is it that I can give myself that will help me to be a better person. And when I am like, say, well fed spiritually or well fed, even physically, you know, I’m able to do the things that are important to me, and not get so off track, because I can really get off track also.

Janine Bolon
There’s so much that we can do and is that is out there. So what are some systems you’re both such scholars, you’re like me, we love our books, we love scholarly research it’s like, nothing is more exciting for me, then to have a question that nobody has an answer to that’s in my circle. I’m like, Oh, goody, guess what I’m doing for the next four hours, right? And I’m going to start digging. And then if I can’t find it on the internet, my favorite thing in all the world is go to my local university library and start chatting it up with the librarians and they dig for stuff for me, and I’m sorry, that is something that turns my crank. So what do you do to help yourself stay in a thriving place?

Rebecca Starns
Being aware, really being aware, like being tuned into myself to the spirit guiding me, I mean, I just go a lot by my gut, I think intuition you’d probably call it. And you know, if I have that balance, I’m good. If I have that balance, I just have to be level with my meditating, and spirituality. And be tuned in, and for me, you know, I love animals, cats, dogs, birds, wild animals. Those are the things that kind of center me, and I think allow me to be my best self, and that’s probably not true for everyone. Not everyone may be really fed and nurtured by going for a walk in nature, although I think most people would be but finding out what it is that brings you joy, so that way we can be self responsible, you know, we are responsible for our own happiness and for our lives, and for our health, and, you know, not to be kind of like drifting around and think, well, somebody can help me with this, you know, it’s my body, it’s my life. You know, I want to be responsible for it.

Janine Bolon
Right. And that’s not something we’re all taught is it?

Rebecca Starns
Right. And therefore, one of the things that tools that I use is positive self talk. Because as we all know, we can go the other way, and that depletes us, depletes our energy, and our motivation, but I can tell myself, I am excited about life. And I am excited about my growth. And I am excited about being healthy and strong. And, you know, sometimes I lose that energy. But I need to feed it in a positive way. So I can, I heard a wise man say this one time, you’re going to end up wherever you’re headed. You know, and it’s that simple, I think.

Janine Bolon
Those simple phrases, so we have about two minutes, Dr. Vic, you want to chime in on this dude, we’d love to hear ya.

Dr. Vic Starns
I agree a lot with Rebecca, you know, we have several spots in Colorado and Wyoming where we go and we get recharged, we get our energy recharged. And we kind of do that once a month, we get away for three, four days and do that. And when we moved from Missouri to Colorado, Rebecca made me promise her that I take her to the mountains all the time. So we’ve kept that up now for 11 years. And, you know, Rebecca is a big force, you know, because she’s always behind me. And she, supports everything that I do. And she not only supports it, but she collaborates with me on it. And I value her opinion very much. And I try to tell people is like, we’re not in competition, we’re in collaboration, you know. Get the competition out of your mind, we’re not competing against each other, we’re collaborating to come up with the best answers. And that’s hard to teach people. But when they do it,

Janine Bolon
It’s a thing of beauty. And we’re gonna talk about collaboration, connection, and how you can move through this world with compassion when we come back after the break.

Janine Bolon
Hey, welcome back. This is Janine Bolon and I’m joined today by Dr. Vic, and Rebecca, who are hosts here on KHNC as well. And it’s always so much fun when we get all of us in a room together, so to speak, talking about these things. So as we were talking about collaboration, connection, and compassion, so I wanted to talk a little bit about definitions. I’m a scientist by training. And so one of the things I like to make sure is that we know what we’re talking about. There is a difference between sympathy, empathy, and compassion. So let’s just chat real quick, that empathy and sympathy sometimes get confused. So say somebody has recently died. And you don’t know what to say, the sympathetic answer to show that you connect with him as a human being, but you may not have any way of being able to express the emotions you’re feeling, you will say, I am sorry for your loss. This is something we’ve done in our culture, so that we can connect, but at the same time, when we don’t know what to say, we don’t say something stupid, right? That may be my thing. I don’t want to sound stupid. That’s one of the things is I’d like to be able to say something that’s comforting. Now, empathy is maybe your mom has also died, and so this person’s mother has died. And so you have very empathy. And you’re like, I know how you feel. I’m so sorry for your loss. However, you want to say that that’s empathy. What we’re going for, though, as business owners, as leaders, as dreamers, as people that are music makers, however, you identify yourself as a creative, we go for compassion. And this is what the Buddha was talking about, which is, we don’t try to connect with people at a level that is insulted, which is do I truly know how this woman is feeling? Maybe she didn’t get along with her mother, maybe she’s clicking her heels in the back office, thinking Finally, I’m out from under this woman, right? You don’t know. So compassion says, I know you’re going through something. But I don’t necessarily know all the details. And so Rebecca, you were talking to us about connecting, and compassion and connection are very, very similar. So talk to us about how you were describing people listening and connecting with those in their community to build their community. Talk to us a little bit about how somebody can learn to do that. Because no offense to the younger generation, they’re not taught how to listen. They’re taught, sit still and hear what I’m pumping into your brain. They’re not really taught how to listen. So any pointers you want to give us?

Rebecca Starns
I was thinking about Dr. Emoto, the Japanese Dr. Masaru. Emoto, I think is his first name. And he did the study where he tested water. And he would freeze water and look at it under a microscope, and it would be very chaotic, you know, it would be polluted and didn’t have any form or symmetry to it. And he would write love or compassion or joy or peace or beauty, and put just that word, on a piece of paper on the bottle of water, and leave it there for a while. He would refreeze the water and look at it again under a microscope. And you can look at it on the internet, just the most beautiful forms, they look like snowflakes. Just beautiful crystals, like something you might see in a cathedral from the word love. And his kind of the synopsis of that was is that our consciousness can change things, things start in our mind, they start with how we’re feeling. And I really can’t give to another person what I don’t have myself, if I don’t have self compassion, or I don’t have self love. And you know, it sounds kind of weird, I keep saying it kind of goes back to ourselves. But if I have you know, self beauty, self wisdom, self love, self compassion, I can connect other people on that level and see that in you. And I can love what I see in you because I can appreciate what is in me. So if I’m not healed, if I’m not in a good state of mind spiritually, I don’t really have anything to give another person, anything positive anyway.

Janine Bolon
Now we can be a part of the problem, sure, we can add to that can’t we. We’re champions at that

Rebecca Starns
Complaining or criticizing and right.

Janine Bolon
And so being able to really listen to another person to hear them. What are some techniques that you use to really hear what another person is saying? Or what did they call it conscious listening or active? There we go active listening? Yeah,

Rebecca Starns
Well, I try to make eye contact and then just let the person talk and not interrupt and listen to what they’re saying and not try to anticipate what I’m going to say next in response to that to sound clever or impressive, which I could do that. But just having practicing humility and letting the person speak and finish their thought. And it’s so important to be heard. I mean, everyone wants to be heard. When I was younger, I was just critically cripplingly shy, and I had a back brace that I wore, I had a back problem I had to wear for four years, and people will come up to me and say, What happened to you? And I learned that people want to be heard, they want to be listened to. I was so self centered and afraid about what will I say and so embarrassed, but I realized everybody wants to be appreciated, and everyone wants to be heard. And we can give that to one another. Because everyone does have a voice.

Janine Bolon
That’s one of the neat things about tech in my mind is that we’re actually being able to hear people that otherwise wouldn’t. People who are bedridden who can do YouTube channels now because they have the ability and stuff like that. So there are times for tech is incredibly infuriating. But then I also look at all these people that have a voice and a platform that didn’t before and that brings us Dr. Vic because we were talking about collaboration and compassionate collaboration when you’re collaborating for the good of more than yourself. Right. So talk to us a little bit about, you were talking Dr. Vic, you were saying, hey, get rid of the competition out of your brain. Talk about collaboration and how we can do that compassionately.

Dr. Vic Starns
Well, one of the things that I learned in my studies that I use a lot, and it’s in the action research, that’s where when we have a group of people, maybe six or eight, and we go around the room, and we let people talk, and we dialogue we do not debate. We do not cross talk, we do not answer people’s stuff. We just say what we want to say. We put it in themes and then we sort it out and we find out we get a consensus of how we move forward on a problem that we had or on a new process. I don’t like to fix problems. I like to find new processes. I mean, I’m not a problem solver. I’m a new process person. And I cannot do this alone without collaboration. I look to the people on my teams, I look to other professors, I looked at things and, you know, I put things out and we get together and we dialogue. And we always use the third one I couldn’t think of was appreciative inquiry, where you always put a positive, you don’t go in the negative, you always do the positive. And I do that with people. And I want them to know, I’m listening to them. Because I’ll repeat back, I hear what you’re saying, here. This is where you’re having the problem, and how do we move forward from this? Do we, you know, we can collaborate on that I can help you, I want you to know I got your back, I’ll help you any way I can. But I can’t solve your problems. But I can help you find processes. And that’s what I do with them, I let them know that I hear them, and we can find a solution. Always stay in the solution. And that’s what I tell people, when I collaborate, let’s stay in the solution. Let’s don’t get into the negative. Let’s look at the positive.

Janine Bolon
Because you have to start somewhere, you might as well move in a direction that at least pointing to where you believe a solution will be even if the solution doesn’t end up being there. But I need you to back up ,Appreciative Inquiry educate me on that a little bit more. I’m not thoroughly sold on the concept like I don’t have a really good definition in my head for what that means. So can you give me an example or two on that to kind of help it with my brain?

Dr. Vic Starns
Well, that was kind of like when we started. When I would ask people what was the project or the product or whatever it was that they did well. And instead of trying to fix the problem, where they’re at, I tell them, let’s do what you do well. That’s Appreciative Inquiry, stay in the positive stay, in the solution. Don’t drift back into the negative on problem solving. Look for processes, look for what people do well, and, you know, I had when we had our business in Missouri, I would have people come to work, and you know, they were having problems. And I brought one man in, Charlie. I said, Charlie, if you could do whatever you wanted to do, anything you could do, what would it be? And he thought about it, he says I love to paint cars. I said, really? You’re a painter? And he said, Yeah. I said, Well, I’ve got about a million pounds of iron out there in the yard that needs to be painted. I said, and I have no idea what kind of, you know, paint system to have, or whatever I said, if you were going to buy a airless sprayer, what would you buy? And he said, Well, this is the one I would buy for the company. And I said, Charlie, if I bought you that machine, would you paint? And he was my best employee after that. That’s what I do with all of them.

Rebecca Starns
And I also wanted to say it’s also like I heard a lot of stories where people will retire from their job. And they’ve done something they didn’t really enjoy. And then they retire, and then they start following the passion of their heart something they just love, maybe a hobby. And they just rock it, you know, they make a lot of money. They’re having fun, they have a great business just doing what they love.

Janine Bolon
And that is where we all want to go. So okay, you guys are into to life rule. I absolutely love chatting with you. How can people get to know you better? Where can we send them? Like do you have a website? Talk to us? If you don’t mind? Dr. Vic,

Dr. Vic Starns
I had a website and the people that were doing it weren’t doing a very good job on it. So I had to shut it down.

Janine Bolon
So they weren’t your painter then obviously not a painter. Okay. Moving on.

Dr. Vic Starns
It was a bad deal. But they do contact me at my number at 720-705-1018.

Janine Bolon
Rebecca, how about you? How can people get a hold of you?

Rebecca Starns
I have a phone number 720-422-0930

Janine Bolon
Sounds fabulous. Thank you both so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate you both.

Rebecca Starns
Thank you Janine for having us. It’s really been great.

Dr. Vic Starns
You know, we’re just really happy to welcome you to the KHNC team. And we’re on at three o’clock on Sunday. And I think you said noon on Sunday? You were going to be on.

Janine Bolon
That’s right. Yep. That’s where we are. So thank you so much you guys appreciate having you. And this is Janine Bolon with Janine Bolon show. See you next Sunday.

Bryan Hyde
Thank you for listening to the Janine Bolon show. Be sure to subscribe to our show notes by going to www.thejaninebolonshow.com where you’ll find additional resources as well as the opportunity to sign up to receive our program in your email each week. Be sure to visit our sponsor at www.the8gates.com.

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